TSC minutes: November 2009
City of Lawrence
Traffic Safety Commission
November 2, 2009 Minutes
MEMBERS PRESENT: Jim Woods, Chair; Ken Miller, Vice-Chair; Scott Criqui; Robert Hagen; Dan Harden; Richard Heckler; Robin Smith; and John Ziegelmeyer, Jr.
MEMBER ABSENT: Jason Novotny
STAFF PRESENT: David Woosley, Public Works Department
Chair Jim Woods called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m. in the City Commission Room, City Hall, 6 E. 6th Street.
ITEM NO. 1:
Review and approve the minutes of the Traffic Safety Commission meeting, October 5, 2009.
ITEM NO. 2:
Consider request to establish a 25 MPH SPEED LIMIT on Lincoln Street between 2nd Street & 7th Street.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report.
Commissioner Smith noted that there is a sidewalk along the south side of the street between 4th Street & 7th Street.
Public comment:
Alain Deroulette, 434 Lincoln Street: There are 14 children living between 4th Street & 5th Street actively playing; when I found out the speed limit was 30 mph I was shocked and wrote this letter to the Traffic Safety Commission; there have been incidents where my mailbox was broken twice; I would like to propose reducing the speed limit to 25 mph.
James Dick, 189 Pinecone Drive: My daughter recently bought a house on Lincoln Court, and I have a 6-year-old grandson that rides his bike to school every day; with the work on 2nd Street, traffic has exploded along Lincoln Street; I certainly would support lowering the speed limit on Lincoln Street; but I also think there should be some STOP signs; our dog was recently hit along Lincoln Street and had to have surgery on her hip.
Commissioner Heckler noted that STOP signs could not be addressed since they were not a part of the original request and were not a part of the agenda.
Commissioner Smith noted that the North Lawrence Improvement Association also supported the request.
Commissioner Heckler stated that with the narrow street a slightly lower speed limit might help but it would only be as good as the enforcement.
Commissioner Harden: My advice is that lowering the speed limit is only ceremonial; the signs go up and you feel good about it for a few days but you will continue to have the same situation you have today. If you want to slow people down, you have to put physical barriers in.
Commissioner Miller asked if there had been any recent traffic counts and if the street would qualify for traffic calming; Woosley advised that the traffic volume ranged from 800-1000 vehicles per day which on a local street would not qualify for traffic calming, but the speed of the traffic would qualify in most of the blocks.
Commissioner Heckler: Since the North Lawrence Improvement Association supports a lower speed limit, they would probably support traffic calming measures to reduce the speed of traffic. I would suggest we table this item and let the neighborhood determine whether they would like to present other measures.
Commissioner Smith: I would support lowering the speed limit to 25; it may not solve the problem but I think it would help it.
Commissioner Harden: I think we need a solution; they have a problem; lowering the speed limit is not a solution, it's a ceremonial thing; they need a solution.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HARDEN, TO TABLE THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH A 25 MPH SPEED LIMIT ON LINCOLN STREET BETWEEN 2ND STREET & 7TH STREET; THE MOTION CARRIED 5-3.
ITEM NO. 3:
Consider request to establish NO PARKING along one side of Wimbledon Drive between Inverness Drive & Turnberry Drive.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report.
Public comment:
Pete Peterson, 4712 Wimbledon Drive: The need for NO PARKING would only exist between Inverness & Rodeo where the apartments are, if there is going to be NO PARKING on one side of the street; from Rodeo to Turnberry there is not a problem, there is seldom any parking there.
Commissioner Hagen: I think if you start removing parking, you will turn in into a race track.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER MILLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH NO PARKING ALONG ONE SIDE OF WIMBLEDON DRIVE BETWEEN INVERNESS DRIVE & TURNBERRY DRIVE; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 4:
Consider request to establish STOP signs on 24th Street at Ponderosa Drive.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report and noted an e-mail that was received not in support of the request.
Public comment:
None.
Commissioner Heckler: I say we deny the request; I don't think it will solve any problem and I don't think a MULTI-WAY STOP is a good idea where there is a major flow of traffic.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SMITH, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH STOP SIGNS ON 24TH STREET AT PONDEROSA DRIVE; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 5:
Consider request to establish NO PARKING along both sides of Stone Meadows Drive approximately 120 feet north of Stone Meadows Court.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report.
Public comment:
Scott Flitcraft, 4401 Stone Meadows Court: I'm strongly in favor of installing the NO PARKING; as you approach the intersection southbound, typically there is a truck parked there that causes you to cross the centerline to go around and there is a fence on the other side of the street that blocks your view on oncoming traffic; in addition, when you are exiting Stone Meadows Court and turning right, the fence blocks your view of southbound traffic that may be in your lane; I've had several close calls as well as my wife, my children and other neighbors; many times there are cars parked on both sides of the street which makes it very difficult to get through; the remedy is to install the NO PARKING and alleviate the problems.
Randy Barnes, 4400 Stone Meadows Court: I almost got hit head-on pulling out of Stone Meadows Court going north; I had to drive into the neighbors driveway to avoid an accident; we have a lot of sixteen-year-old kids in our cul-de-sac that are starting to drive and every morning we are very nervous as they leave for school; somebody is going to get plowed.
Jim Cooper, 1115 Stone Meadows Drive: Stone Meadows Drive is paved twenty-six feet wide, the same as all other residential streets in the city; with vehicles parked on one side of the street, the street is wide enough to accommodate two vehicles passing by in opposite directions; the presence of cars parked on a residential street does have a calming effect on traffic; it makes me a more conscious driver and we've noticed that traffic tends to move slower; it's rare that cars are parked on both sides of the street; this complaint seems to single-out one resident in particular; there are at least four other areas in our neighborhood with similar situations without NO PARKING areas; this would deprive us of street parking for family, guests, service workers, delivery vehicles and contractors or vendors; we would have to start parking up the street in front of other neighbors houses; I'm here tonight to oppose this request and I have a letter signed by three other neighbors in opposition (attached).
Jane Dahem, 1119 Stone Meadows Drive: I have been driving in-and-out of there every day for a year and there is no line of sight obstruction from trucks or cars parked on the west side of the street at all; we believe that parking on the street keeps the speed down; we don't want to encourage any more speeding on the street than there already is.
Bizhan Dahem, 1119 Stone Meadows Drive: When the teenagers exit Stone Meadows Court, they don't stop or even look around; the police department has observed the intersection and an officer told me he didn't see any problem.
Commissioner Woods: I don't think 120 feet of NO PARKING is warranted for two houses; it looks to me like a neighborhood dispute; I'm not in favor of any spot NO PARKING areas.
Commissioner Miller: I've tried to be consistent in situations where we've have parking on both sides of the street; I have a concern for emergency vehicles getting through; but I don't think that applies here.
Commissioner Harden: This is a potentially dangerous situation, but all streets and all intersections in the community are potentially sites of accidents; there being no accident record, it's basically an unfulfilled potential. I'm reluctant to do anything until there is a clear consensus from the neighborhood.
Commissioner Rothrock: In this situation, since there is parking on both sides, if you force the parking from the outside of the curve to the inside of the curve, you are going to limit your sight distances more.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER CRIQUi, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH NO PARKING ALONG BOTH SIDES OF STONE MEADOWS DRIVE APPROXIMATELY 120 FEET NORTH OF STONE MEADOWS COURT; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 6:
Consider request to establish TEMPORARY TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICES within the Park Hill neighborhood.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report and noted that several e-mails had been received about this item (attached).
Public comment:
Michael Pomes, 528 Kansas Street, President of the Park Hill Neighborhood Association: I have some graphs that were made from traffic counts done on June 9, 2009 (attached); the graphs show more vehicles entering the neighborhood from 23rd Street than there are residents; we continue to have problems with cut-through traffic; there are another 98 cars entering from Dakota Street; the greatest average speeds is at 2425 Vermont; this is a critical point since there is a park nearby and a number of residents with small children; a second location is on the Park Hill curve where speeds are increasing and there are young families in this area too.
Tim Evans, 2509 Montana Street: I'm not about not being safe, however, we're not for any of the traffic calming devices being proposed for the neighborhood, primarily because of what they look like; there are other alternatives such as the speed radar signs; I really don't feel threatened walking in my neighborhood.
Carol Armstrong, 2536 Montana Street: There are more children in the neighborhood and there is more speeding; the biggest problem is from Louisiana down Park Hill Terrace; there should be a speed bump there; something is necessary in our neighborhood.
Mary Head, 508 Oklahoma Street: I wanted to speak to cut-through traffic; what I have observed people illegally turning-in from 23rd Street in the afternoon and then encounter them coming out of the neighborhood onto Louisiana; they are just using our neighborhood to cut-through.
Michael Almon, 1311 Prairie Avenue: There is a wide range of devices available now; some people like them, some people hate them; they are inconvenient; if you want to deter traffic, you need to make it inconvenient; there are no sidewalks in the neighborhood; something needs to be done.
John Bowen, 403 Dakota Street: We were attempting to try something temporarily to see if it would work; I know they're not the prettiest-looking things; but this is why we went this route; it's just temporary until we see if it works; the cut-through traffic zips through the neighborhood to avoid the intersection of 23rd and Louisiana.
Commissioner Harden: I would encourage the neighborhood to spend some time discussing this and come back with a consensus; I'm reluctant to forge ahead until I hear what another discussion may bring about.
Commissioner Woods: Some folks think it's a problem, some folks don't and some folks want some help with traffic calming devices and others don't; I don't know if it's an issue we can solve.
Commissioner Miller: I didn't do a count, but I got a bunch of e-mail forwarded to me today and I think most of it was against this proposal.
Commissioner Hagen: The degree to which there is a range of opinions is greater than we've seen in other situations; I would be reluctant to proceed ahead without a broader representation of the neighborhood.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HARDEN, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, TO TABLE THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH TEMPORARY TRAFFIC CALMING DEVICES WITHIN THE PARK HILL NEIGHBORHOOD AND HAVE THE NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT BACK WITH A CONSENSUS AT A FUTURE MEETING; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 7:
Consider request for a YIELD or STOP sign at the intersection of 24th Terrace & Crestline Drive.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report.
Public comment:
None.
Commissioner Criqui: I navigate that intersection at lot; it does seem confusing who gets to go.
Commissioner Hagen: This has come-up before; I don't think there is any answer to it.
Commissioner Criqui questioned whether the dynamics have changed due to the KU parking.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SMITH, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST FOR A YIELD OR STOP SIGN AT THE INTERSECTION OF 24TH TERRACE & CRESTLINE DRIVE; THE MOTION CARRIED 7-1(Criqui: Just because no one is here to support the request doesn't mean it isn't a valid request).
ITEM NO. 8:
Consider request to establish NO PARKING along the west side of Sunset Drive between Cambridge Road & Harvard Road.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report and noted that the Forestry Division was working with the property owner on the northeast corner of Cambridge & Sunset to remove some of the landscaping causing a sight obstruction and that the Traffic Division had recently marked a centerline through the intersection.
Public comment:
Betty Baron, 1108 Sunset Drive: We are extremely concerned with safety and we believe that parked cars create a safety barrier between pedestrians and vehicles; without cars parked on the street motorists will drive even faster than they do now; we haven't seen a visibility problem that couldn't be addressed in another manner; in addition, the yellow lines on the street are very helpful; parking spaces in the neighborhood for private vehicles and service vehicles are at a premium.
Julia Mechler, 1027 Avalon Road: We are just trying to increase the safety of the intersection; I cross that intersection about four times a day with my daughter walking her to Hillcrest; it is very difficult to cross from the east due to the curvature of the road and the landscaping; the removal of some of the landscaping will greatly help; and the dotted line through the intersection has helped.
Jan McCullough, 1035 Sunset Drive: We took some parking off Sunset about three years ago; we left the rest of the parking mainly because the cars go very rapidly, mainly going north; if you take the rest of the parking off, the cars will drive faster than they do now and they will be closer to the sidewalk.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER HAGEN, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER CRIQUI, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST TO ESTABLISH NO PARKING ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF SUNSET DRIVE BETWEEN CAMBRIDGE ROAD & HARVARD ROAD; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 9:
Consider request to permit parking on 13th Street in front of 833 E. 13th Street.
David Woosley presented the information provided in the staff report and noted that several e-mails had been received concerning this request (attached).
Public comment:
Chris Oltman, 833 E. 13th Street: This has eliminated parking in front of eight single family dwellings; I have spoken to five of the eight and they would also like the ban to be lifted; we understand that sight distance for those using the trail is important, but perhaps there is another solution; we feel the trail won't be used much at night or in the winter; we can now no longer park in front of our houses; I would request that the ban be lifted at this time until another resolution is determined.
Michael Almon, 1311 Prairie Avenue: All of the other crossings of the trail currently have NO PARKING on both sides of the street; 13th Street is the only crossing that doesn't; this is the spot that is closest to the trail that would block the sight distance for trail users; this is the point where it is most critical; It comes down to the issue of what level of inconvenience for the fewest number of people will resolve a safety issue for the greater good of the community; it doesn't seem to be to the level of hardship, but it is a level of safety for lots of people that will be using this trail.
Commissioner Criqui asked if there wasn't enough parking in the driveway; Oltman advised that he was an independent paint contractor and he parks his truck with all his equipment in front of the house where he can keep an eye on it.
Commissioner Hagen asked what the reasoning was for the 300 feet of NO PARKING; Woosley advised that is what the neighborhood associations requested.
Commissioner Woods: I'm concerned that none of the residents affected by the parking removal are members of the neighborhood associations that requested it.
Commissioner Heckler: I think we should leave it as is until we get the trail in and see how it is working.
Commissioner Woods asked if the crossings would be marked; Woosley advised that the crossings would be marked by signs and colored concrete.
Commissioner Hagen: I could support reducing the 300 feet of NO PARKING to 200 feet, but that wouldn't solve the concern here.
MOTION BY COMMISSIONER CRIQUI, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HECKLER, TO RECOMMEND DENYING THE REQUEST TO PERMIT PARKING ON 13TH STREET IN FRONT OF 833 E. 13TH STREET; THE MOTION CARRIED 8-0.
ITEM NO. 10:
Public Comment:
None.
ITEM NO. 11:
Commission Items:
Commissioner Woods welcomed Commissioner Rothrock as a new member of the Traffic Safety Commission.
ITEM NO. 12:
Miscellaneous:
The Commission acknowledged City Commission action on previous recommendations.
The meeting adjourned at 9:45 P.M. The next scheduled meeting is Monday, December 7, 2009.
Respectfully submitted,
David E. Woosley
Transportation/Traffic Engineer
